EPA is important

[Berserker]

This is why:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cho ... story.html

[Nighean Donn]

That also makes me wonder what exactly they are burning over there... in China.

[MorGrendel]

That also makes me wonder what exactly they are burning over there... in China.

Everything!

To be fair, the US burned car batteries until 1979 and nuclear waste after that.

China's problems are compound by population density, modern petroleum based material, an industrial revolution, and a general low value to life. The smoke cloud is getting worse not better, and you should expect the rhetoric to grow as it continues to affect the countries around it. It is having a devestating effect on the Japanese fishing and agroculture (it blocks out the sun), and Japan has threatened the first Environmental War.

However, the EPA would do little good in China, as they primarily sue or fine perpetrators. They would be going after the government (exempt) or the extremely poor (cook/warmth fires). Unfortunately with the EPA they are almost always reactionary, so the damage is already done. Worse, they are not all that effective in the US. After the Keystone spill they did little but blame the state department for issuing the permits. Fat lot of help to the people, whose backyards are now oil slicks.

[Berserker]

If you claim that the EPA can't do stuff, you must look no further then congress to see why. Every time they try to do something they get threatened with extinction. And the oil and coal industry has very high support from Congress. EPA never does.

Even science is put aside if it threatens this industry. How many ads have you seen that claim that "Coal is clean"? What bullshit.

Just this past gov't shutdown, the GOP put out a statement listing the top 10 benefits to the shutdown, and 7 of them of them were that the EPA was shut down.

If anything the EPA needs more executive power (not just over private industry, but over the other gov't agencies -- I'm looking at you Fort Meade), or we will end up like China.

[MorGrendel]

Exective Power! Dear God man.

HMMM, ATFEE, no wait TAFEE - yeah that sounds better. The Department of Tabacco, Alcohol, Firearms, Explosives, and the Enviornment. I can see them storming BP and Exxon central offices as we speak. Here's your fine . . . with interest! Blam! Blam! Blam!

[Berserker]

You realize the EPA is in the executive branch yes? Executive power is what all the agencies currently have... That's not a scary word. "Congress" is a scary word.

What I meant was that EPA needs more teeth. If fines is their way, then fines that will stick and not be lawyered away every f'ing time. Or the power to shut a business down, permanently. You mentioned the oil spill that no one seems to care about, perhaps if the EPA had the power to shut that oil company down if they didn't clean up, then that company might actually go and clean their shit.

And yes, army bases are some of the most polluted places in the US. And every time the EPA does a study on a base and tells them to clean their shit, they nod and smile and move on with their lives since the EPA can't tell the army what to do. Some teeth there would be nice.

Or at least a little support from Congress for when they come out and say that a practice is bad. I'm tired of all that EPA does being labeled a job killer. Yes, disposing of chemicals safely instead of dumping them in a lake IS more expensive!

[hypo]

I know this is nit picking but BP isn't an American company so how would you shut them down or bar them from selling their oil to another company that refines it? Companies always seem to find a way around rules/regulations/fines/fees.

[Berserker]

Yeah, international companies are very hard to police especially since you want them to do business in your country. Too tough and they might go away. Still, it's a two road way. They also make money here so they are willing to listen to some extent.

[MorGrendel]

I know this is nit picking but BP isn't an American company so how would you shut them down or bar them from selling their oil to another company that refines it? Companies always seem to find a way around rules/regulations/fines/fees.

Since some companies generate more money than some countries, maybe we should treat companies like countries. I mean the SC says they are people with free speech, why not treat them like people from different country than me. Clearly we have different veiws on things. They like money, I'd like their company not to kill me.

It's old school, but Tariffs, Embargos, and Sactions/Reperations all have historical presidence. Or if you want to flex that Executive muscle, let's see some Letters of Marque and Reprisal. That's how we dealt with offshore problem in the past.

Ah, but who are we kidding. We still buy lead-coated toys from China, blood cobalt from Africa, dog treats that kill our pets from China, and ship our jobs to India where over 14 Million people live in conditions of SLAVERY OR WORSE (http://world.time.com/2013/10/17/report ... ke-slaves/). What's a little oil, right?