Age of sigmar

[Fritz]

That is indeed a video game, one that should be good. Creative Assembly is a pretty good company that usually does well with their Total War series. Rome 2 was a bit of an embarrassment, but I think they'll bounce back well with Total Warhammer.

[boagrius]

So I've never been a huge fantasy guy I've only really played cause of you guys but I gotta disagree on the AoS. I've watched a few games played now and can't wait to play. Monsters and characters are what they truly should be,badasses that can reck shop. But don't think for a second that a hoard of little guys can't take them down. The rule are very different than what we're used to but you can play the blocks of guys you love to a very similar style. It just seems different. I know no points is out there but before every game we've ever played you've agreed on appoints limit. With that you had an idea of what to expect from your opponents. What's the difference in agreeing with a model count or type from that. Non really.

The true difference is that there's no flanking and positioning the way it was.
But there is good reason for that.

Other that the end times coming out fantasy had withered. We and others play but not buy. There's no need we had our armies built over time. The buy in was to great for new players. Small battles in fantasy have NO flavor and are just blah.

Everything for gw is pricy but there's not much out there that's on the same scale. Nobody hates paying more than me but you can't deny their quality is great.

Don't just read the rules try playing them. I thought at first it sounded stupid but after seeing it in action it was well played,recieved,and balanced.

[MorGrendel]

I played it. I had a 50 man block of gobbos wreck shop. It was fun - I should read the rules.

[Fritz]

Frankly Cook, you're a 40k guy. I expected you to like it because it plays like 40k. If I want to play 40k, then I'll grab my Space Marines and drop out of the sky in a blazing ball of fury. A skirmish game with scale up rules would have been fine. Hell, it would have been welcomed. That is not what we got. I also simply can not get on board with a system that doesn't even attempt balance. I don't want to negotiate lists. I want maneuver to actually matter.

There are enough choices out there to satisfy me that I see no need to waste my time. My army will be rebased to Kings of War multi-bases. In a way it's kind of liberating. Fantasy had indeed become bloated and slow to play. By dropping it entirely GW has psychology freed me to try another game system that actually looks like it might actually be better than 8th anyway. Otherwise, loyalty might have kept me blind to alternatives.

[ahrimen]

So then why have any rules at all. Just agree with your opponent on everything, I used to do that with Ethan when he was 5 using his green army men, fun? Sure! Challenging strategy game? No, they have reduced it to a beer and pretzels game. "Just roll some dice and have some fun " so then why have any rules ? If I bring an all goblin force do I need to plead with my opponent to not use instant win? Then how many gobbos = whatever? If it's skaven slaves or bretonian men at arms it 1 to 1 ish. Any one else and I have to find an agreement?
Just watched a battle report with elves vs dwarfs. Elves Had 10 sword masters, 8 silver helms Tyrion and an eagle , the dwarves had 20 clans men 2 war machines a rune priest and slayer. The elves ran through them like butter. No tactics on either side. Run in the middle and roll dice , yay:\ ?

[MorGrendel]

I seem to remember a lot of complaints about balance before too, hence why tournaments had special rules, etc, and Swedish comp. I seem to recall a lot of cries about cheese.

I'm not saying it's balanced, but by the lack of an attempt to balance, it created a dialog between Jason and I about the game we wanted to play. Yes, that changes things from a very meta min/max strategy to a tactical reactionary setup. Is it the worst thing? I don't think so, we all house-ruled out a lot of things we didn't like and generally chose not to play hero hammer so in many ways we were already doing that.


That battle seems surprisingly small. Bases on the old rules, I'd expect the Elves to wipe that force.

[ahrimen]

If you add up the points by the old system it was hugely imbalanced tward the elves. And that game too was. But they agreed to play around 20 models soooooo by the new rules completely fair.

[Fritz]

The fact that the old system had such imbalances is one of the reasons I'm considering not even sticking with 8th and moving on to something else. And just because the old system wasn't perfectly balanced is not an excuse to not even try in the new system. My hope was they would get better. Instead, they said fuck it. This is where actual interaction with the online community helps considerably. Infinity and Kings of War put out beta rules for players to try, get feedback, and then adjust the point values. It puts more of the onus on players to balance the game just like Age of Sigmar, but with the extra step of those companies simply compiling the general consensus.

[ahrimen]

Do I just saw they put out an attempt at balance via some e-mail to stores and stuff, (dunno if it's true) but what I saw was.
1. Up to 12 units max 25 wounds per
2. 2 heros
3. 2 wizards
4. 2 monsters
because all troops all heros all wizards and all monsters are equal

[Fritz]

http://captiongenerator.com/48463/Hitle ... -of-Sigmar

[MorGrendel]

Ha Ha Ha! Did you write that Fritz, or find it somewhere?

It's spot on, and I generally agree with the sentiment "Why didn't they just spin Age of Sigmar off - It's a totally different game." I mean GW just put out the EoT books. If no new Warhammer rules happened for a year or two (save army books), I don't think there would have been a huge uproar. Introduce the realms . . . Blah, Blah . . . Hey AoS is selling like hotcakes, so we are going to put out stuff for that more often. It has the feeling of an unfinished stop-gap, where there was no gap.

However, I remember a time when MTG was getting super serious and there was money to be made by playing and hosting events. Wizards of the Coast released 2 "for fun" editions of cards and everyone was up in arms. WotC said it was for the casual player, and many parts of this new AoS feel like that. . . Except Unglued and Unhinged did not negate any of the cards or rules in use. Well, technically, you could play an older edition, I mean it's not like we've ever done that before. Heck, Bretonnia has essentially been a "classic" for the last decade or so.

Having now read the rules (mostly), I realize we made a bunch of mistakes, assumptions made from our experience of a previous system. Some rules are dumb (I'll never understand an entirely random charge range, true line of sight unless intervening models), but at I still had fun. I'll have to get another game in before I can speak with any certainty.

[Fritz]

That video came from Dan. Not sure where he got it.

As for the other complaints, check out the Kings of War rules when it is released on the 10th. Fixed charge distances, better line of sight rules, and magic that is reliable, not overpowering, and yet useful.

[lilscutt]

Blah..... I kid I kid. I think in person is a little different then all this chat, and battle reports doesn't really show it. Everyone has opinions and it is what it is. Fluff is going to be great, the models amazing and I have fun with the game play. Like I have been telling my customers. 3 things I care about, how can I help your hobby, what models are you picking up(I don't care if it's models for 8th, aos, or kow), do you have any questions, whatever else is coming down the line for aos is going to be cool. I understand not the game for yall but it well sell and it well last. See what the future holds.

Side note one of the point system Internet is talking about doing wounds + attacks x bravery equals points. Also Dan the war report you saw the dwarf player must of rolled horrible bc war machines are amazing still in game for dwarfs.

[Bash]

I dont know what is going on here nor do i really care and some how skimming through all this i have to speak up about this.

rules give an added flavor that was from back in day from rogue trader.... Shocker there use to be no point system.

.

rogue trader had a gm and the flavor was added by the gm. just so there is no confusions am not talking about the modern day rogue trader but the one that came out in the 80's

that is all i am going to talk about this subject

[Fritz]

Well there went my idea for using the Sigmarines as something else. $50 for 5 models. Yikes...