Star Wars Discussion **WARNING: SPOILERS**

[Fritz]

I'm dying to discuss the movie with those that have seen it as well. Be warned, do not scroll down if you have not seen the movie.






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Ok, seriously, if you're still here, you've been appropriately warned.

1) Holy shit the new cast is amazing. Love the characters and love the actors. Daisy Ridley is my favorite overall, but Oscar Isaac stole the show whenever he was on screen.

2) I think Rey is pretty clearly Luke's daughter. I feel like that was well and purposefully telegraphed. I expect that to be quickly confirmed in the next movie as she trains with him.

3) I went in fully expecting Solo to die at the hands of Kylo Ren, which I correctly expected to be his son. I thought it was the perfect end for the character. Ford wanted the character to die in Empire, so it's not surprising that he came back to give Solo the end he always felt was right. Ford really brought his A-game not just to the final scene, but to the whole movie.

[Titus]

The scenes between Chewie and Han kind of gave me a "Grumpy Old Men" movie vibe to them. Let me borrow this for a second. Rrarareeararera!

[Titus]

My favorite scene is where the X-Wings join the battle skimming the surface of the water. That scene gave me chills down my arm.

[Fritz]

Absolutely agree. They built to that scene so well. It was the first look we got at the full Resistance, and they were awesome. I love Oscar Isaac regardless, but that scene really won me over to Poe Dameron as a character. That was some awesome dogfighting.

[Berserker]

So let me get this straight... The empire builds this uber huge mega weapon of mass doom that no one in the new republic even suspects until they are all blown to bits? But then a damn single plane destroys it much like the deathstar was destroyed, through a stupid tunnel to the center of the soft underbelly? Who build a planet as a weapon and puts no defenses on it? Even the shields, how does one dude take down all the planetary shield and there's no one noticing? Shouldn't something that important have some sort of requirement to call upstairs to the boss and not just have a dude from a random terminal disable the whole planet? And then there were like 20 rebel planes that attacked the planet! And won!!!

Then this son of Han Solo.. He looked totally badass and I was totally into him being a sith lord, until he took his helmet off. Then I was like, who the heck let the wimp out? I felt he was one of those kids that you shove in a locker, and I just couldn't take him serious the rest of the movie. I guess it's no wonder he got his ass handed to him. Which also bothered me! How did a stormtrooper who had no combat experience whatsoever actually wounded a battle hardened and extensively trained sith lord? Why didn't the sith just force choke him like he apparently could do whenever it was not needed? How did the girl beat him with no force training whatsoever? They just don't make sith lords like they used to..

So now there's a resistance of a whole 20 people left, and an empire that destroyed the entire republic opposition and has absolutely no adversary. Game over?

My favorite character was Finn actually. He was the most believable in my mind. Harrison Ford and the girl jedi also didn't disappoint. And of course, loved the droid.

My favorite part of the movie, and the thing that I remember most fondly, is the scene where Poe destroys 6-7 planes in a dog fight. That felt badass and was totally believable. I loved that scene.

[Fritz]

So let me get this straight... The empire builds this uber huge mega weapon of mass doom that no one in the new republic even suspects until they are all blown to bits? But then a damn single plane destroys it much like the deathstar was destroyed, through a stupid tunnel to the center of the soft underbelly? Who build a planet as a weapon and puts no defenses on it? Even the shields, how does one dude take down all the planetary shield and there's no one noticing? Shouldn't something that important have some sort of requirement to call upstairs to the boss and not just have a dude from a random terminal disable the whole planet? And then there were like 20 rebel planes that attacked the planet! And won!!!

Everything here can also be directed at the original trilogy as well. The movie was an intentional throw back to old school Star Wars, plot holes and all.

Then this son of Han Solo.. He looked totally badass and I was totally into him being a sith lord, until he took his helmet off. Then I was like, who the heck let the wimp out? I felt he was one of those kids that you shove in a locker, and I just couldn't take him serious the rest of the movie. I guess it's no wonder he got his ass handed to him. Which also bothered me! How did a stormtrooper who had no combat experience whatsoever actually wounded a battle hardened and extensively trained sith lord? Why didn't the sith just force choke him like he apparently could do whenever it was not needed? How did the girl beat him with no force training whatsoever? They just don't make sith lords like they used to..

Ren is actually my favorite Star Wars villian since Vader, perhaps more so since the presequels severely undermined Vader. Very complex and well acted. I guess that's just down to taste. He's not a fully trained Sith as evidenced that he still needed to complete his training.

The final scene came down to a few things for me. First, he was wounded from Chewie's shot, which was clearly hampering him. Second, he was an emotional wreck. The movie made it clear he wasn't the most balanced, and then add the fact he had just killed his own father. Try as he might, he still looked very conflicted about that. That's probably how Chewie landed a hit in the first place. Third, he was toying with Finn. I've seen it a few times now and it looks very much to me like he's just messing with Finn until Finn gets a lucky shot in (which we've all had happen). Notice how quickly that fight ends after that lucky strike. Finally, if we can accept Luke can stand up to Vader as well as he did with no light saber training in Empire, I can accept Rey being a prodigy capable of taking down a half trained, badly wounded, emotional wreck of a Sith.

So now there's a resistance of a whole 20 people left, and an empire that destroyed the entire republic opposition and has absolutely no adversary. Game over?

That was the Senate and an unknown percentage of the Republic fleet. It seems to me that there would be a portion of the Republic fleet elsewhere, but probably not that big. The books dive into this a bit more. The resistance has some capital ships as well, to include the famous Home One. The Republic fleet was downsized significantly after the Battle of Jakku, opting instead to allow each system to provide for their own defense. But, yeah a huge portion of the Republic fleet is gone as is the Senate. Doesn't look good going forward. I expect the next movie to have three lines going that converge. First, the First Order running rampant with the Resistance barely hanging in. Second, Ren training with Snoke. Finally, Rey training with Luke. Dual training montages FTW!

My favorite character was Finn actually. He was the most believable in my mind. Harrison Ford and the girl jedi also didn't disappoint. And of course, loved the droid.

Ford gave the best performance he has in years (although he was quite good in 42). I'm blown away by the new cast. I knew Oscar Isaac would be good, but Ridley and Boyega were incredible surprises.

My only disappointment was Carrie Fischer, but I should have seen that coming. She was never the best and the drugs have clearly taken a toll. The inner fire that defined Leia as a character wasn't there. They were wise to limit her speaking time. I could still get something from her facial expressions, but her voice is just gone.

It should be interesting to see Hamill alongside this cast in the next one. They are well beyond where he was in the originals, but Hamill has grown significantly since his Star Wars days into a very good actor. He mainly has does voice work, most famously as the Joker for the last two decades. If you want a taste, go watch any Joker scene out of the Arkham trilogy of games. He was also a show stealer in his appearances of Flash.

My favorite part of the movie, and the thing that I remember most fondly, is the scene where Poe destroys 6-7 planes in a dog fight. That felt badass and was totally believable. I loved that scene.

Absolutely. I think it may have been close to 10. A very close second was Rey pulling the lightsaber. The unspoken emotion on both Rey's and Ren's face was great, but John Williams' score punched you right in the gut there. Fantastically timed crescendo.

[MorGrendel]

My favorite character has to be Finn. This story is his arc; he's the new Han. Rei is fine, but she very guarded initially and really didn't find herself until the end. Movie 2 will be all about her, while Finn is frozen, err I mean healing.

My favorite seen has to be almost at the beginning, after that I was hooked. When Rei and Finn are flying the Falcon through the debris field, stall the engine to fire the bottom gun, and the meet in the hallway and and frantically debrief about what just happened. They had me, I was rooting for them. I felt something when they were split up.

[MorGrendel]

Now the bad.

You have the technology to devour Suns? Why destroy the planets, just eat their sun. Appearently, the Resistance only has a handful of ships, you know where they are, so why not just plan a Imperial Assault? Hmm, Resistance and Imerial Assult - board games anyone?

I agree with Serban, the complete destruction of the planet seems like too much. If destroying the "oscillator" disabled the planet's rectum for a few months while the Republic mounts a response seems more believable. Blowing up a planet or two every movie is really unnessesary overkill. And the republic had the plans - really you didn't try softening the target before it was fully operational?

How does the weapon even work? Is there a transition of mass? There must be, because they are draining the sun empty, except... That's not how fusion works, everything would get brighter, until equalibrium is reached, and then there is a super nova. When a sun goes dark, they call that a black hole. An equally bad idea. And where did they store this sun? Suns aren't hollow, and are much bigger than planets. Also they are extremely dense, eventually as the planet got more dense it would either pull the sun into it or ignite itself. How could something that powerful even be affected by a laser.

[MorGrendel]

Regarding Kylo, I actually saw his reveal coming. I knew he'd be young. He acted like and was treated like a petulant child. I remember the looks the general gave him early, and I was like Vader would never tolerate that. And then when Snoke essentially interrupted him to talk to the general, I figured he ranked pretty low. I figured he was untested and unproven. I liked the pimple detail.

[Fritz]

Now the bad.

You have the technology to devour Suns? Why destroy the planets, just eat their sun. Appearently, the Resistance only has a handful of ships, you know where they are, so why not just plan a Imperial Assault? Hmm, Resistance and Imerial Assult - board games anyone?

They didn't find the Resistance base until the end of the movie. Why do an assault when you can blow up the system?

I agree with Serban, the complete destruction of the planet seems like too much. If destroying the "oscillator" disabled the planet's rectum for a few months while the Republic mounts a response seems more believable. Blowing up a planet or two every movie is really unnessesary overkill. And the republic had the plans - really you didn't try softening the target before it was fully operational?

The Republic didn't have the plans. Heck, nobody knew it existed until it blew up the Hosnian system. I doubt we'll see another "Death Star" type in the future. This movie was an intentional homage to the original trilogy. Considering the criticism this movie has piled up about not being original enough (which is hilariously ironic considering the criticism Lucas took for the prequels diverting too much), it won't be happening again. Regardless, this movie was about introducing the new characters and re-introducing the universe. The next movie is set up to do something very special.

How does the weapon even work? Is there a transition of mass? There must be, because they are draining the sun empty, except... That's not how fusion works, everything would get brighter, until equalibrium is reached, and then there is a super nova. When a sun goes dark, they call that a black hole. An equally bad idea. And where did they store this sun? Suns aren't hollow, and are much bigger than planets. Also they are extremely dense, eventually as the planet got more dense it would either pull the sun into it or ignite itself. How could something that powerful even be affected by a laser.

This is a universe where ships fly in straight lines in space, people walk around with laserswords, and a certain subset of the population have powers that literally defy physics. There have been two Death Stars that blew up planets with just a big laser. It works because it's science fiction.

Regarding Kylo, I actually saw his reveal coming. I knew he'd be young. He acted like and was treated like a petulant child. I remember the looks the general gave him early, and I was like Vader would never tolerate that. And then when Snoke essentially interrupted him to talk to the general, I figured he ranked pretty low. I figured he was untested and unproven. I liked the pimple detail.

Kylo was theorized to be a Solo well in advance. They didn't try to hide it within the context of the movie at all. The reveal was early and well telegraphed. I was hoping/expecting Rey to be his twin like in the old EU, but she is clearly not. I do like that they parallel the EU with the Solo son falling to the dark side. He should be a very interesting character going forward. He is the anti-Luke in many ways.

[kiara]

Overall I thought it was a great movie and I would totally pay to see every minute again. Anyone up for it. I do worry that they are going to fallow a lot of the same story lines of the first three movies just with different charters or family members of the original characters. Cause I feel like this one fallowed the new hope story line alittle to much, But still what a great movie.

[MorGrendel]

A little too close. Fan service. But the reveals were well done.

However, I was hoping Kylo was Dark Side Luke from the Heir to the Empire series. I'm also hoping that the female twin is already with Luke and they train to fight in tandem. Come on that would be awesome. Luke using nothing but the Force flanked by two screaming banshees wielding laser swords.

Is something with wizards really science fiction? I think it all melds because it's fantasy. Hense why it's cool to party with things that plan to eat you.

They had the plans, they asked Finn where the weak points were. They seemed aware of the first order, and that "the weapon" drained Suns. They should have acted. Unless they couwldn't because they were too weak, in which case, the planets had to be more valuable then the lives of a few storm trooper. Shock and awe only works if there is someone still alive to remember it. I think a slow drain of the sun would have created more tension then blowing up five planets in one scene.

And When did star fighters get hyperdrives? I thought fighters like x-wings and tie fighters had to stay close to capital ships because they lacked the ability for prolonged flight and were too small for hyperdrives. I may be wrong, but I thought, Luke and Vader were able to survive in them due they're Jedi training. I get a few years have passed, but I thought that was a give. If they have hyperdrives, why not train to leap in behind the shields and come in low like Han did in a much more maneuverable ship. Sorry I don't want to pick it apart, but ... It's hard to ignore.

[Fritz]

They had the plans, they asked Finn where the weak points were. They seemed aware of the first order, and that "the weapon" drained Suns. They should have acted. Unless they couwldn't because they were too weak, in which case, the planets had to be more valuable then the lives of a few storm trooper. Shock and awe only works if there is someone still alive to remember it. I think a slow drain of the sun would have created more tension then blowing up five planets in one scene.

Leia's first line to Finn is that she's desperate for any information. They knew nothing about it. Finn tells them what he knows off screen while they also sent out recon flights. The recon flights were a single line during the briefing, so it was easy to miss. What you then see in the briefing is the compiled information they've collected.

And When did star fighters get hyperdrives? I thought fighters like x-wings and tie fighters had to stay close to capital ships because they lacked the ability for prolonged flight and were too small for hyperdrives. I may be wrong, but I thought, Luke and Vader were able to survive in them due they're Jedi training. I get a few years have passed, but I thought that was a give. If they have hyperdrives, why not train to leap in behind the shields and come in low like Han did in a much more maneuverable ship. Sorry I don't want to pick it apart, but ... It's hard to ignore.

Rebel fighters have always had hyperdrives. It was a key part of their tactics. Jump in with only starfighters, hit something, jump out before the Empire can bring its full force. It's not explicit in Empire, but it's fairly obvious since X-Wings are escorting transports off of Hoth. In Return of the Jedi, it's explicit and on screen. Hyperdrives are a new addition to the TIE fighters though. Vader's specialty craft also had one, but that's the extent.

As for jumping in beyond the shields, Han made it pretty obvious that it was an insane maneuver. Sure, the X-Wings could have done the same, but you probably would have lost a fair few. Why bother when we can go all Endor with the shields? It worked, after all.

[Berserker]

I think my disappointment with the sith lord was partly because of the buildup in my head and the buildup at the beginning of the movie where he was sooo awesome he was stopping lasers in mid-air without even looking. And then he sucked at the end. But I can understand the inner turmouil that might have weakend him so much and I can learn to love this Sith again if he ends up badass in the next movie and gets his feelings in order (that finalizing of training better work!). I loved Vader and I want to see another badass Sith to make me proud. Also, maybe he needs a beard. Beards always make people look more badass ;)

I do look forward to the next movie, especially since Disney is now deciding what is canon and what is not, which means they can go anywhere and do anything they want with the story. Freedom is great! And I'm very glad they took it over from Lucas. After all, in Lucas's world, stormtroopers are blind. Disney got it right and not only do we have a badass Finn (who's basically a private with no combat experience when the movie start, so if he's that good, imagine the more senior troops), but all the other troopers are actually hitting things and look like a well trained army =)

Oh, and no Jar Jar characters. Thank you Disney for not making me hate someone in your movie.

[Fritz]

I loved the end with Kylo. He thoroughly dismantled Finn. He was so clearly hobbled by the wound that I didn't think it took anything away from him when he lost to Rey. While Rey was a Force novice, she was hardly a hand to hand novice as evidenced early in the movie with her staff. I think the fight, instead, just served to build up Rey in my eyes. That's just my opinion though. I definitely get where you're coming from Serban, and you are hardly alone on that criticism.